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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:30 am on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 8:04 pm on July 8, 2008

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Sure it does.

  The first person in this thread to talk about the Bible being written by a mad man or many mad men made the positive claim; therefore, the burden of proof rests on his shoulders. If you disagree, then prove that God doesn't exist. Same basic debate principle.

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 I see that the other party needs to substantiate their claim as opposed to you, but I still fail to see how the origins of the bible and the existence of god are connected in this discussion.

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I was using the example of "prove that God doesn't exist" to illustrate my point that the person making the positive claim has the burden of proof. Just as it's not on you to prove that God doesn't exist, it's not on me to prove that the Bible wasn't written by a mad man or a group of mad men. It's the job of the person making the positive claim to provide the proof of that claim.

That said, I really would love to see something from any reputable scholar that suggests that the Bible is the work of a mad man or a group of mad men.

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Prove to you god does not exist? That I cannot do. However I could provide you with heaps of evidence that point of the most logical answer. All of which lead's to the idea that god does not exist.

Just as the logical evidence suggests that the bible is just one big story book.

I am not here to attack anyone's beliefs. As I have my own.

This question may be hard for you to fathom... However, let's assume that Christianity has not existed for thousands of year's. You suddenly come across this book? What would you think?

There are two possibilities in my mind. One being that it was started by a madman. The other being the possibility that it was started by a group who didn't agree with society at the time. In an attempt to change it, they wrote the framework for future societies.

If you've watched the movie "The Village" by M. Night Shyamalan it is the perfect example of what I am trying to explain in my second theory.

The rest is useless to continue debating. As you obviously have your mind set. I'm open, so unless you can prove me otherwise, I stick by the more likely theorie's.

You made the positive claim ("the Bible was written by a mad man/many mad men" if you're having trouble keeping up, which it seems you are). It is your job to provide evidence of that claim. It is not my job to prove your claim wrong, just as it is not your job to prove that God does not exist.

Do you understand or shall I use smaller words?

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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You, too, missed the analogy...which makes you silly, as it's been explained a good three or four times by now.

You made the positive claim ("the Bible was written by a mad man/many mad men" if you're having trouble keeping up, which it seems you are). It is your job to provide evidence of that claim. It is not my job to prove your claim wrong, just as it is not your job to prove that God does not exist.

Do you understand or shall I use smaller words?

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It's obvious you did not read my post.

I've clearly backed up my argument using logic as evidence. If you were capable of looking past your belief's, you would understand what I am saying.

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 3:30 pm on July 10, 2008

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You, too, missed the analogy...which makes you silly, as it's been explained a good three or four times by now.  

 You made the positive claim ("the Bible was written by a mad man/many mad men" if you're having trouble keeping up, which it seems you are). It is your job to provide evidence of that claim. It is not my job to prove your claim wrong, just as it is not your job to prove that God does not exist.  

 Do you understand or shall I use smaller words?

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It's obvious you did not read my post.

I've clearly backed up my argument using logic as evidence. If you were capable of looking past your belief's, you would understand what I am saying.

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I don't think you're quite getting this.

In the realm of history, logic doesn't cut it. Plenty of things have happened in history that someone looking at them logically would say, "That couldn't have happened." I want you to provide me solid historical evidence for your claims; else you're just jumping to conclusions (a no-no in academia, at least where history is concerned) and have lost the argument.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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I don't think you're quite getting this.

In the realm of history, logic doesn't cut it. Plenty of things have happened in history that someone looking at them logically would say, "That couldn't have happened." I want you to provide me solid historical evidence for your claims; else you're just jumping to conclusions (a no-no in academia, at least where history is concerned) and have lost the argument.

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Logically the most likely event is the scenario that I have presented. You have not provided any evidence to back up your claims. So as of now all we both have is logic, and it's in my favor.

You kiddies really need to learn how to debate.

Sure there is plenty of historical fact in the bible. That's not what were debating.

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?  

 So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?  

 The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.  
 I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.  
 So yes he services  everywhere.

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Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

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No. We are debating the historical authorship of the Bible. Can you provide a single shred of historical evidence that what you say is true? Can you provide a single scholar who agrees with your viewpoint?

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Provide me proof that it wasn't written by a madman. Then we have an argument. Until then the logical evidence is still in my favor.

It's a debate, prove me wrong.

Post edited at 11:37 pm on July 11, 2008 by N e o

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 7:51 pm on July 9, 2008

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Saying god doesn't exist is a negative claim. So you would need to provide proof that he does exist, not me providing proof of the contrary.

 I'm not supporting or denying the claim, so look elsewhere for that.

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But if you started a thread with the topic being "God does not exist", it wouldn't be up to those replying to prove you wrong. Making the assertion puts the burden of proof squarely on you.

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Of course. But you were going of the basis that positive claims need to be proven. "God does not exist" is a negative claim. I was simply taking your statement too literally I think.

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I made it rain on my hoes.Then god smote me for trying to play god.

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 10:05 pm on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?

  So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?  

  The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.
  I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.
  So yes he services everywhere.

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 Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

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He can and like any one else with a name IT'S Capitalized!
Santa claus' name is capitalized,You'r name is capitalized,what iss it wit people on this forum and using improper English when it come's to God's name?!

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God (capital at the beginning of a sentence) is undeserving of a capital as he does not exist. I only capitalize Santa Claus because he was real, though his true name was Saint Nicholas. However, god, as I had said, is non-existent, therefore does not require any proper capitalization.

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I made it rain on my hoes.Then god smote me for trying to play god.

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:23 pm on July 11, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 10:05 pm on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?    

   So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?    

   The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.    
   I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.    
   So yes he services  everywhere.

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  Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

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 He can and like any one else with a name IT'S Capitalized!  
 Santa claus' name is capitalized,You'r name is capitalized,what iss it wit people on this forum and using improper English when it come's to God's name?!

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God (capital at the beginning of a sentence) is undeserving of a capital as he does not exist. I only capitalize Santa Claus because he was real, though his true name was Saint Nicholas. However, god, as I had said, is non-existent, therefore does not require any proper capitalization.

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:34 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:23 pm on July 11, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 10:05 pm on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?

  So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?  

  The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.
  I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.
  So yes he services everywhere.

---

 

  Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

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  He can and like any one else with a name IT'S Capitalized!
  Santa claus' name is capitalized,You'r name is capitalized,what iss it wit people on this forum and using improper English when it come's to God's name?!

---

 

 God (capital at the beginning of a sentence) is undeserving of a capital as he does not exist. I only capitalize Santa Claus because he was real, though his true name was Saint Nicholas. However, god, as I had said, is non-existent, therefore does not require any proper capitalization.

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Where is your proof of this?

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Was I talking to you? I don't believe I was.

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I made it rain on my hoes.Then god smote me for trying to play god.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 2:09 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:34 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:23 pm on July 11, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 10:05 pm on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?      

     So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?      

     The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.      
     I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.      
     So yes he services  everywhere.

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    Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

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   He can and like any one else with a name IT'S Capitalized!    
   Santa claus' name is capitalized,You'r name is capitalized,what iss it wit people on this forum and using improper English when it come's to God's name?!

---

 

  God (capital at the beginning of a sentence) is undeserving of a capital as he does not exist. I only capitalize Santa Claus because he was real, though his true name was Saint Nicholas. However, god, as I had said, is non-existent, therefore does not require any proper capitalization.

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Where is your proof of this?

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Was I talking to you? I don't believe I was.

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 4:25 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 2:09 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:34 am on July 12, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:23 pm on July 11, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 10:05 pm on July 9, 2008

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Quote: from Shogun villimax at 10:03 pm on July 9, 2008

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" Ah, so you don't want Democracy, you want to revert to the broken feudal system with [a] god as a lord?

  So, how much is this nanny? Does she service in Southern California?  

  The god of the bible that Abraham worshiped is my god and we call him God.
  I work for him because the bible says that he will help me have a better life.
  So yes he services everywhere.

---

 

  Does he watch toddlers? Cause my neighbors want to go on a second honeymoon, but they want a nanny to come and watch them, tell them what to do, stuff like that.

---

  He can and like any one else with a name IT'S Capitalized!
  Santa claus' name is capitalized,You'r name is capitalized,what iss it wit people on this forum and using improper English when it come's to God's name?!

---

 

  God (capital at the beginning of a sentence) is undeserving of a capital as he does not exist. I only capitalize Santa Claus because he was real, though his true name was Saint Nicholas. However, god, as I had said, is non-existent, therefore does not require any proper capitalization.

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Where is your proof of this?

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 Was I talking to you? I don't believe I was.

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Does it matter who you were talking to? You made the statement in an open forum. Do you never reply to comments that weren't directed at you?

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Usually I do, but I'm sick of responding to you. It ends up going in a circle.

Besides, the only proof in favor of your cloud nanny is the bible, which can not possibly be taken as any evidence. And, if god talks to you, then you're crazy with schizophrenia or some other mentla disorder. The proof against it is only the lack of.

We have been through this. I will state it as fact whenever I want, or I will state it as a personal belief if I so choose.

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I made it rain on my hoes.Then god smote me for trying to play god.

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Usually I do, but I'm sick of responding to you. It ends up going in a circle.

Besides, the only proof in favor of your cloud nanny is the bible, which can not possibly be taken as any evidence. And, if god talks to you, then you're crazy with schizophrenia or some other mentla disorder. The proof against it is only the lack of.  

We have been through this. I will state it as fact whenever I want, or I will state it as a personal belief if I so choose.

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And if you're sick of responding to me, then don't.  

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Pectus Pectoris Memor