All blacks -- LiveWire Teen Forums

Quote: from jakelong at 5:33 pm on July 22, 2008

In which case, you would stand out quite a lot. yeah but it depends how the ppl there react to me. its not like just because im mixed that they gonna all automatically jump on me.

You were asking later in the post about how I interpreted waht you said as lynching - this is generally why. It's very rare that people do any kind of violence against another group of people simply for their color of skin. The more subtle things was what I was really aiming at, which can lead to things such as alienation, etc.

nonwhites though get stopped and looked suspicious at by whites because they assume we no good. I know that when i go to the library or the nice posh malls.

Eh, don't think it's just non-whites in general, Jake. I'm about as white as one can be and I often get that when I go to the library or the nice posh malls, too. I'd attribute a lot of this more toward my age and perhaps my appearance (meaning clothes, though I tend to dress very casual so I usually doubt it) more than anything else.

not as much if you white then if you non white. its not saying whites are more racist but its what i noticed.

Yeah, I understand, although don't think that a white person can walk into a black group and gain their trust no problem and make friends. I certainly haven't been able to very easily, and whenever I have, I'm usually greeted with immense suspicion. It's usually a matter of how you go about it (it's no exagguration to say that your typical group of blacks are dramatically different in how they dress, talk, sense of humor, how they do things, etc. from your typical group of whites), but sometimes not even that can help anything.

I find blacks have a strong sense of identity as black people (compared to whites and most other races, at least) and one of the core concepts of this is identifying yourself as not white first and foremost. In the end, this creates the mentality that whatever "white" is, it is not you. It is very similar to Edward Said's concept of Orientalism. It leads people to believe that white people and black people are polar opposites and have very little at all in common.

Through this process of "othering," Jake, a white person is as often unwelcomed in a black community as a black person is in a white community. Of course, there's always individual variations (and often times down to the individual level, this doesn't occur) but remains generally true on a more broad level and in groups of black. And as usual, the reverse situation holds true as well (at least to an extent, as I find whites don't tend to identify as strongly with white people as blacks do, mainly because whites don't usually identify themselves with other groups of whites (for example, Germany enslaving Slavs during the Early Middle Ages isn't seen as betrayal, whereas the black enslavers of the Kingdom of Benin around 1600 enslaving blacks in the interior to be shipped to the Americas is often seen as a betrayal, by all races alike)).

However, as always Jake, integration is key to eliminating all of this. Separatism of all kinds should be discouraged, and they occur more often (at least subtly) among all races, but especially minority races, which is the result of the treatment of their race both in the present and past.

what I mean is when you black or latino and you go to the nice places then you get bad looks and bad vibes all the time.

It's quite true, though do bear in mind that how one presents themself also matters a great deal. Some of which is out of their control (race, age, etc.), some of which is (clothing, etc.). Very few whites I have known would think anything particularly suspicious of "white washed oreos," which leads me to believe that it's more than just about race.

However, seeing as how the popular notion is that blacks and latinos are gangstas, etc. (no doubt pushed through shitty contemporary music), it is no surprise that people associate blacks or latinos with crime, lowlives, etc. Ignorant, no doubt, but no surprise and if you'd ever wish to end it, you'd attack the source that perpetuates the stereotypes as opposed to the people who hold them - for they aren't necessarily prejudiced, but merely ignorant.

me and my buddies we was driving back home after the movies at around midnight from the nice part of town where they have nice houses and stuff and 90% white area. we was driving in a regular car (not beat up) no speeding, no loud music or rap no shoutig or even laughing. I mean we KNOW to stay low profile over there.
we took kind of a side road to get a shortcut to the freeway. then bang we got stopped by a cop. he asked us about the car and if it was ours and he made us stick around for ONE hour while he was checking everything he could in the world about if the car was really the drivers and if his license checked out..and yeah the driver is adult. then he slams the driver with some ticket about the guy in the back seat had no seatbelt on. it was all dark in a dark street. how the fuck he saw that? ALL he could prolly see was 3 latinos looking guys and one black guy in a car in the nice area and he ASSUMED we stole the car from the good honest white folk. wtf i mean we COULD have been living in that area too.

You sure the cop would have been able to notice what race you are before pulling you over? I've tried to guess what race somebody driving near me was, and it must have taken at least 4 or 5 glances before I got a good picture of what they looked like. Looking at other people when you're driving is honestly quite hard!

Moreover, cops ask bullshit questions like "is this car yours?" and shit like that all the time. One cop tried busting me in a parking lot once for trying to steal a car when I was really just looking for a place to pee. Good thing my friends showed up to rescue me just as I was getting arrested! With their stories, I wound up getting let off the hook.

If that neighborhood had a report of a car or two being stolen (especially if your friend's car was similar to the car reported to having been stolen), it wouldn't surprise me that the cop did what he did. But hey, who knows? There's a lot that can occur that you don't know about, so I'd honestly try to stay away from any conclusions. Remember, Jake, nobody likes cops, whites, blacks, latinos, and any race alike.

all it takes is stuff like that to tell you you not welcome. over and over it happens. happened 3 times in front of me different cars, different ppl (the other car was 3 asians and me and another was 2 latinos and 1 black and me). happened to my friends. same story over and over.

Could be, couldn't be. Just keep a few things in mind when evaluating these things:

1) Age could be just as much of a factor in this as race.
2) If your area has a lot of crime, cops will be proactive and assume you're a criminal. Race could be a factor in this, as well as age, clothing, where you are at what time, if you try to act "low key" (cops are great at noticing who's being natural and who's acting, but they can't distinguish between bullshit acting and real acting), reports of other kind of activity going on, etc.

THATS something NO white guy ever has to worry about even if he goes in a all black hood and all the cops are black. except if he drives with nonwhites maybe.

I call bullshit on that. Ever since my incident with nearly being arrested, I tend to not linger around in parking lots at all anymore in fear of being accused by a cop of trying to steal a car. I usually feel pressured to make sure that it doesn't appear as if I'm doing anything funny (which ironically probably makes me look even more suspicious). You'll often notice white "skaters" (more like posers, I'd say) getting a lot of shit from the police, too. It all depends on what kind of stereotype you're presenting the police and how you're acting in these situations.

when i go to the nice areas where ppl are mixed its NOT like that at all. they just treat me like normal like if you dont do weird stuff then ppl leave you alone.

I'd agree, to an extent at least. For example, you'll notice that if you look at the percentage of blacks, it's among the highest in the South and far more mixed than most communities in the north and west. However, self-segregation exists there in a far stronger way than out west (can't say about the north as I've never been to any area in the US considered to be a part of "the north"). Despite that, I find that attitudes toward racism is basically the same (and shockingly better and more "hands on" among many individuals in the South), but self-segregation among large groups seems to be its main problem.

I would hope too but ppl cant even get past it in a teen forum when we dont even see each other! so im still waiting for that to happen.

Oh, people do, however it's sorta difficult to get passed something like race when those individuals keep pushing it in your face. One's self identification and how they choose to express that plays a key role here.

It also depends strongly on how much emphasis other individuals put on race, and whether they believe that "race" is more than just one's heritage, but also the way they act, the views they hold, etc. Some people will slap you with a racial label (which may have been pushed by you, or perhaps not but merely through a stereotypical view you hold), especially if you already match the race they believe you are, and thus will not be able to perceive you as anything beyond that particular race they labelled you as.

Post edited at 4:26 am on July 23, 2008 by Bud2400

Quote: from jakelong at 7:42 pm on July 23, 2008

you get ppl asking what you doing there and looking at you like you gonna steal something?

Usually people don't talk to me unless I talk to them first, however, I do notice librarians / clerks / whoever eyeing me a lot, as if I am up to no good. I usually attribute this to my age - after all, young 20 year old. Probably doesn't have a lot of money - what could he want here?

I will admit that ifI blend in with everybody else, this usually does not happen, however,if I'm alone and in a conspicuous spot, they'll do this. If you're a minority in an area where there's usually not a lot of minorities, then people will notice you and thus you'll be more likely to be subjected to this kind of treatment. I wouldn't say that this is necessarily racist, but the result of a lack of integration.

well yeah thats true. im mixed so i get that from everyone in a way. i blend in easier with latinos just because i look latino but they know im not 100% and they know i dont speak mexican fluent.

It's pretty funny for me because although I do blend in well with white groups (particularly Russians, though I know very little Russian), I never really fit in with them back in high school. I usually hung out with all the Filipinos and East Asians - I think I was the only white person in our group of like 20 - 30, which was awkward at times, but only if somebody ever brought it up as I usually didn't think about it. It's important to remember that blending in =/= fitting in, although once you fit in, you basically blend in with everybody inside the group.

i got lots of use with funny looks from everyone anyway (not the same as hate or really suspicious look) and im used to it. it dont bother me. so i know what to do and how to be and i make sure i get a buddy how can vouch when i bump into new ppl. i also always got to good jokes and cool food and things to share. sounds funny but it helps smooth things out.

I'm sure it does, although bear in mind that not everybody's sense of humor is the same, moreover, that occasionally some groups of people will look down upon you no matter how awesome you might actually be, and thus view you negatively no matter what. Though being yourself is important when making friends, how you choose to express yourself is in every way just as important. How you choose to express yourself is what determines the kind of friends you make and I've experimented with that a lot.

I'm pretty odd in that I personally think that every single person can like any person in the world, given that they express who they are just right. We all are different, yet likeable in different ways and thus inherently equal. We tend to see positives and negatives in everyone, and how we treat and think about a person is based on whether we choose to emphasize the good more than the bad, whether we see only bad and don't know / ignore the good, etc. How this gets presented dictates whether or not you like the person, and when trivial things that people have no control over such as race gets in the way, I tend to get a little bothered.

yeah its true in away. mostly its bec some of them dont get to be together as much as a group in other times like at work or at school.

Personally, I think discrimination in the past has forced blacks to band together and put more emphasis on their identity as black people. The discrimination isn't nearly as strong today, however that same emphasis and feeling the need to band together still exists. White people do not feel this so strongly because they were not subjected to what blacks were overall.

Feeling persecuted in some way has historically been extremely important in consolidating groups of people. The ancient Hebrews used their stories of their treatment in Egypt in order to unify the peoples of Israel and Judea, who had been split apart and fractured since the Babylonians took over and expelled many of them from the area. Christians created such a strong community in the Late Antiquity mainly due to the fact that Romans persecuted them, and they were able to hold onto that strong sense of community through the persecution they felt by the Islamic world, and when they finally overcame that, by a sense of supremacy and duty to convert the rest of the world, still with stories of the noble Christian missionary who was persecuted by the "savage pagans." And more recently, we have the creation of Israel supported largely due to the sense of persecution of Jews. Persecution / discrimination, Jake, is key to unifying different people into one single group.

but the thing is look for those that blend in with other race. like you see a group of blacks mixed with latinos and asians. thats your cue they gonna be more open. then you make freinds with some of the blacks and they know you cool and they know who would be cool and open to you. then pretty soon nobody gives a fuck what race you are bec you just part of the cool group.

Actually, the best thing to do is make friends with an individual or two at first, and then make your way into their group. If you can have somebody who will vouch for you, your chances of being accepted and looked upon in a positive light by others will increase phenomenally.

if you talking about like excluding ppl out of jobs or social sutff yeah. but sometimes ppl feel like having their own clubs too. theres nothing wrong with that.

I even think things like the Black Students Association, the Chinese Students Association, etc. are all bad. These groups only take race into consideration and the members of these groups only identify themselves with that race further. This, in the end, promotes separatism / self-segregation for it subconsciously makes these members believe that they have more in common with those of the same race as them, which naturally leads them to befriend those of the same race as them more than those not of that race. This is the very same reason why I oppose multiculturalism at all costs, for multiculturalism seeks to celebrate the diversity of each group as opposed to the diversity of each individual, and in the end, only promotes self-segregation despite its advocating integration.

so long as those groups dont start getting stupid about it and start saying no to ppl who want to join just because they dont fit the group profile.

You mean like a white person trying to join the black club, but being refused because they're white?

Even if they did join it, they'd still be treated differently and excluded simply because they are white. I have no problem with culture clubs (you know, clubs that celebrate a certain culture, such as those Mexican culture clubs, etc.) because the people who'd attend these clubs would actually have something more than just their heritage in common (it could be the way they live, what they like about the culture, or even simply linguistically - after all, you gave the example of Filipinos in the Filipino club speaking Tagalog), but I do not approve of clubs that only cater toward a race as if the members of this said race have more in common than they do with members of other races.

Remember what I said in that it's all about how people express themselves. If you can get passed all the bullshit, people will always find out that they have much more in common than they previously thought. Even a black separatist and white separatist could see this, provided that they somehow shed their separatist attitudes and interact in a non-judgmental way.

so you saying if somebody black dress all nice with a suit and tie they DONT get bad looks? tell that to the black ppl I know.

I certainly have and the black people I know tend to agree - if you dress "white," talk "white," and act "white," you'll be treated with more respect by white people. You might get some odd looks, but they generally aren't threatening or suspicious ones.

fuck tell even that to my mom. she dress ok i mean shes not like a teen. she dress like any mom thats working as cleaning lady (dress and stuff). and ppl tell HER she should get back where she belongs and she takes jobs of good americans. (well of course her boss dont say that he just gives her 20 hours work per day thats all). what she does to DESERVE that? its just her race thats all.

Lol, if your mom's boss really thought that she was an illegal immigrant, then your mom's boss would do what he could to pay her in cash as opposed to a paycheck, which is usually an indicator of tax evasion and illegal sub-minimum wage pay. That is how illegal immigrants are paid and how they out-compete legitimate US residents.

Can't say about the people your mom interacts with, however if she looks Mexican, people making the ignorant stereotype that Mexican = illegal immigrant are just that - ignorant. And a lot of people do this, both proponents and opponents of illegal immigration alike.

well maybe he saw our car was old and not a lexus. so he looked closer and shone his lights and saw some darkish ppl inside.

Did he actually shine his lights on you guys? It would be pretty obvious if he did.

I think it's more likely that he noticed that it's a car full of kids rather than darkies. If you do things completely atypical of people your age, such as having your music down way low, driving at or a little under the speed limit when the roads are completely clear (you did say that it's at night, so I'd imagine there'd be very little traffic), and if you guys either looked directly at the cop or tried to look away from the cop at all costs, then the cop would have reason to be suspicious. After all, put yourself in the cop's shoes - wouldn't you think that they're trying to hide something?

Cops tend to prey on those who seem to be intimidated by cops - for the idea is that if they have something to be afraid of, then they must be doing something wrong. I've only been pulled over once during the five years I've been driving, and my advice to you is to not slow way down whenever you see a cop (try to go a few mph, but no more than 5, over the speed limit especially if traffic is clear - if they give you a ticket for it, the ticket would get dropped in court with no problem at all), play your music at a regular level no matter where you're at, and most importantly, do not look at the cops or refuse to look in their direction. Instead, glance at them as if they're just another car on the road. If a cop notices that you treat them like any other driver, they're a lot less likely to think that something is amiss with you.

wow ok sounds you got as bad as us. i swear though most white guys i know can do a whole lot of stuff and get away iwth it. maybe they just lucky.

Eh, it's probably just what you hear. I hear of white people getting busted for doing dumb shit or getting shit by the cops all the time.

well yeah. except my white friends can go 90 mph and weave and talk on the cell all the time and NEVER get caught! not one. all of them!

If there are no cops around, then yeah, of course. But if there are cops around, don't think that highway patrol would let that go by. Chances are they probably don't even see a speeding person's race until they pull them over.

man we couldn't be more low key thatn that. i mean no music no talking no smoking no drinking (no alcohol in the car). fuck youd think we was old ladies if you just looked at the way we acted. we KNEW we was supposed to play it cool there because we was in the nice area! and still we got stopped. i mean wtf.

That's not playing it cool, Jake. For a group of kids around 15, 16, and 17, that's extremely suspicious if you ask me. People that age should have their music up (but not up loud enough to disturb anyone), look like they're having fun, etc. Trying to be all quiet and seem "low key" like that will just get you busted time and time again. If you just do as you normally would, then chances are you won't get busted because it wouldn't be atypical of people your age. The cop would then just see you and think, "another group of teens..."

one thing i gotta say is guys any race get stopped 10 times more than girls. i mean girls get away with so fucking much when it comes to driving. specially whie girls.

Given that most cops are male, it wouldn't surprise me much to see that they're softer on females than males.

However, I still hear of girls getting tickets often enough. My sisters have both gotten more than one, and my female friends have gotten close to as many as my male friends when I think about it.

i never been to the south so i cant comment but from what i read it sounds true. it might be because of a combo of old habits/fear/"us vs them" or the way areas are laid out in the south. i cant judge why they do that or if its good or bad though because i dont live there. i bet i'd uncomfrtable in all white or all black areas there though. I prolly would feel better in big cities where ppl are mixed around.

Honestly, a lot of the "us vs. them" bullshit exists just as strongly outside the South as inside the South. The only difference is that legal segregation in the past seems to have naturally separated whites and blacks in the South. When I was lost in some little suburb called Jasper, just outside of Birmingham, Alabama, I tried asking a black guy at a gas station for directions for where I needed to go and he acted completely shocked for my having the audacity to even speak to him. He did help me, but the way he acted was extremely awkward.

I also tried going to a black club with one of my friends (who's half white, half Korean) while I was down there, but left before long since it was obvious we were not welcome there. I'd imagine a black person trying to hang out in a white club there would get the same kind of treatment. It's things like this which perpetuate self-segregation. Out West, you don't really have white clubs and black clubs, but clubs that blacks tend to go to and clubs that whites tend to go to, which makes a huge difference when it comes to integration. In the South, if you try to integrate yourself with people not of your color, you just get awkward reactions and it simply doesn't work, no matter what your color.

That said, most people in the South aren't really racist (at least no more than here in the West), but self-segregation seems to continue largely due to ethnic tensions and the history of discrimination. The West, being more homogeneous on the whole (California excluded, of course), does not share the same kind of ethnic tensions and thus racism out here doesn't seem as obvious. Sort of like how previously homogeneous Europe has always talked shit about the US for its racism until recently, as migrants from Turkey, North Africa, and South Asia increased and started becoming significant minorities themselves, which increased ethnic tension and the visibility of racism there.

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