All blacks -- LiveWire Teen Forums

Seeing how long this is turning out to be, I'm only going to address a few things to keep it brief and to the point. I'm going to address these out of order, based on what I think is more important.

there was this one buddy who ran a red light and the cop was there. broad daylight middle of the day regular traffic, city street.
the cop followed along the street after the light till he was level with my buddy and then he went off. There was NO FUCKING WAY in hell he couldn't have seen the red light violation unless he was really blind.
i mean i was glad for my buddy but i was laughing hard he whole time. then this other buddy he was speeding way too much once and then the cop DID stop him and then he just gave my buddy a warning!!! i mean come on. that guy is Irish and he IS lucky as a rule so I give him that but still....
i mean dont tell me being white comes with a lucky streak or something. you the proof thats not true.

So what if I told you that my sister who ran a red light when a cop was right behind her got pulled over and ticketed? Are you going to tell me that white people can run red lights right in front of cops and not get in trouble for it? Are you going to keep on saying that white people can do things like speed and get away with it, whereas a minority cannot? This is exactly what you're implying and it is entirely untrue. I don't know what to make of your friends' situations if they are as you say, other than that they're simply lucky and that most people are not so lucky, white or black, latino or Asian.

I mean shit Jake, I can think of all kinds of examples. My step-brother who's even whiter than me in appearance got his license revoked because he hit his 8th ticket or something like that. He's the kind of guy that drives like a maniac (60 mph in neighborhood roads) and must have done that kind of thing thousands of times before he finally got caught time and time again. But that, and insurance refusing to cover him, never stopped him and he just kept getting more tickets! You might not see the white people speeding and swerving get caught by the police because the police are not there. But just because you don't see it does not mean that it doesn't happen.

It's kind of funny that you keep saying that I'm the exception to the rule simply for acknowledging the fact that I am observed by the police in a similar light and just as prone to getting a ticket as any minority if I choose to drive like a dumbass. Just about any white person would tell you the things I have been, and just about any white person has some experience with the police and traffic tickets.

why is it you say that and then you talk about jews and blacks and made some big deal about how they this way and that way? i mean if you really believe that then you'd see that jews are like everybody else too and they did try to assimilate.

Where have I ever said that all Jews or blacks are the same? I may have noted some general tendencies among the group, but realize that I'm referring to the broader, more collective standpoint of the group overall as opposed to the individual one, which always varies from person to person. As Jews and blacks tend to define themselves as one group (defined by what they perceive as their race obviously) and act as such, it is necessary that I address it in such a manner. It might seem contradictory when I say it's wrong to identify yourself with a race so strongly and talk like this, but believe me, it's not. Because they are one group as they define it, I must address them as one group, no matter how trivial their basis for creating the group is.

Moreover, I am usually on Abs' side on these issues, and what he says is not racist. He'll say things in a racist manner and make broad generalities when he refers to the broader, overall standpoint (when it may seem that he's referring to the individual standpoint), but he, nor does I and I'm sure you as well, don't believe that anyone is superior or inferior to each other based on race alone. He may think some of the general tendencies among these groups (ie. Zionism, "blackness," etc.) are retarded and makes that individual retarded, but nowhere has he implied any real inherent different among Jews and blacks.

Also, as far as Zionism goes, don't make the mistake and think that Zionism = Jew. I'll say things like how Israel must be destroyed, but that doesn't mean I think that the Jews living there must be killed. Rather, I think Zionism (which I equate with Israel) must be destroyed so that all the people in Palestine can live in peace side by side. As Zionism is essentially a cousin to Nazism in terms how related they are ideologically, it advocates the separation among Jews and gentiles, and that Jews must be the ones in power. It's difficult to create peace and good feelings when the other group of people are being snubbed and oppressed.

i dont agree here at all. i mean i can happen in some ppl. but overall its just a way to hang out with ppl the same culture and the same food and the same stories. to me its NOTHING WRONG with it its ONLY if they go into stupid mode and start EXCLUDING ppl then its bad. they rarely do that though. they often happy to have ppl from other race or ethnic background.

Remember, I agree with culture clubs, but I do not agree with race based clubs. In a race based club, people are led to believe that they must be a member of that race to join it or be a part of it. Some get passed it, but most do not. Moreover, the potential for the exclusion of outsiders of that race is always there as you admit. In the end, this creates the idea that people of a race have more in common with other members of that same race than those who are not of that race. This is what I strongly disagree with.

Culture clubs, however, are fine. It's fine to have a Filipino Culture club, an Italian Culture club, and even a Black Culture club, for it's celebrating their culture, not their race. The two get mixed up a lot and you seem to agree with me for the most part here, so I'll leave it at that.

fuck look at obama. hes mixed race. he dress in suit and tie. is he treated nice and polite like mccain by whites? they make fun of him and compare him to curious george.

Honestly, Jake, I see the same kind of shit coming from the democrats toward McCain. It's politics, no more and no less, and Obama's mixed heritage is just simply something extra people can poke fun at. White people, for the most part, take Obama and what he says seriously. The fact that the man has a great chance of winning the election this November and becoming the president of the US should say something to you.

so we should have like drunk alcohola dn blasted KMEL full blast and jumped around in the car? come on man. every way we lose. if we went and be "typical teen" then youd have said no wonder and you got wha t you deserve and cops go after loud ppl bit.

Quit thinking in such black and white terms, Jake. As far as your stereo goes, you have more than just two options. You can do more than play it on the quietest setting and the loudest setting. Striving for what's in between - normalcy - is what I'm suggesting, and you need to do it in a very natural way.

in another group one of the guy was so used to it that when we got stopped he said to the driver "keep your hands on te wheel, dont make sudden moves. dont reach in glove compartment till the cop says etc..." because otherwise he might get shot on sight or arrested for resisting or something.

Gross exaggeration. Honestly, what he says is ridiculous because most people keep their insurance cards and registrations in their glove compartment, and most people get that stuff out before the cop even makes it to the car. Nobody's going to shoot him on sight for reaching into his glove compartment, and furthermore, they won't do it because he's a minority. Even if your friend did pull a gun on the cop, I doubt the cop will give a shit if he's a minority or not - the only thing on his mind is that this guy is trying to kill him!

or maybe he was shocked you would talk to him politely? or he was shocked you even notice him insead of blowing him off?

It's hard to describe it, but no, certainly not those. It was as I say it - white people and black people in Alabama generally do not interact any more than necessary and it's crossing some sort of line when you do. It's not like a huge shock, but it's noticeable and different.

itd get so freaked over there. the bro of a buddy of mine whos asian said he went traveling with his white girfriend and he went to this diner in the south (forgot where) and EVERYBODY looked at them dirty like they committed the crime of the centruy or something.

I took my half white, half Asian girlfriend (at the time) who looks mostly Asian to Alabama (and we're talking rural northern Alabama, real Deep South) about four years ago and she never recalled any rude stares. I thought there would be, so I was pretty surprised myself, though she just may not have noticed them (I certainly didn't because I'm not that observant). There were definitely stares, though, because Asians in Alabama is very rare (especially where we were at - a small farm town where you find real white trash, the kind of place where people drive their tractors to the grocery store, the entire place smells like chicken shit, and a good portion of everyone wears overalls and doesn't brush their hair - if they have hair), but the stares weren't much beyond an "oh, that's kinda odd" stare. People were pretty friendly for the most part at their local Piggly Wiggly grocery store where most of the interactions in that town took place. It's actually kind of a shock because here in Seattle, interacting with people in the grocery store is awkward and something you just don't do, but over there, it's the thing to do and people kept asking her where she was from, etc. and all curious about her.

which is how many? just curious.

Uhhhmm, hard to say. I'm trying to think of all the female friends I have and are fully white. About half of my friends are white and the other half Asian (with mixes of the two in there here and there). I'd say that, on average, my white female friends get about one ticket every three or four years they drive, usually for dumb things like speeding, not using a signal, not coming to a full stop at stop signs, etc. One ticket every three or four years is pretty typical among my white male friends, too, as well as my minority friends it seems, although as I interact with males more due to my job (I deliver pizzas, and just about all my coworkers are white (Russian to be specific) males), so it often seems like males get more tickets to me because these guys always have all these ticket stories.

Post edited at 12:37 am on July 28, 2008 by Bud2400

Quote: from jakelong at 1:42 am on July 28, 2008

Thats not quite what Im saying no. What i'm saying is that if AS MANY white ppl get ticketed as nowhites then WHY is it the traffic court was 90% nonwhite? Dont tell me whites dont show up at traffic courts.

Don't you always talk about how mixed your area is? It would make sense that your traffic courts reflects the local demographics.

When I went to a King County courthouse a couple months ago for a parking ticket that was mismarked as a traffic ticket, I noticed no such thing. I specifically remember of the five people in line to get their tickets handled, only two of them were minorities.

So what I think is that sure white ppl DO get tickets but not AS MUCH as nonwhites compared to how may whites there are around in the first place. The traffic court was for the whole city (not just for my hood) so it SHOULD have more whites showing up if AS MANY got ticketed.

Got it. But whatever you say, Jake - just realize that a lot more goes on in a courthouse than just handling traffic tickets.

So all I say is NOT that whites get away with breaking the law but that they tend to be ticketed less in proportion than nonwhites. Its a PROPORTION thing.

You should find a study on such a thing. I'd do it myself, but I'm too tired. Right now all we can go by is personal observation, which only goes so far.

Do ou drive like a dumbass? My buddies did NOT drive like a dumbass. you said youself they was suspicious BECAUSE they drove too nice.

Lol, I didn't mean to imply that they did drive like a dumbass. Sometimes I make a dumbass mistake (like accidentally pulling out in front of somebody in parking lot or forgetting that there's a light ahead of me), but usually I'm more focused. I only put about 25,000 miles on my car a year due to my job, and the fact that I haven't been in an accident or gotten a traffic ticket since 2004 should say something.

I never said "the same" I said "this way and that way".

Either way, you understand what I meant. Whenever I say things like that, I speak of broader generalities. I don't mean to say that it's the case for every single Jew or black, but that it's the case for a good portion of them, thus creating a general tendency among that specific group.

well we dont know him. all we know is what he SAYS. and if he says things in a racist way then how do we know he's not?

By judging exactly what he says, why he says what he says, and the underlying point he's trying to make, you'd understand that he's not racist. I didn't have to know Abs personally to realize this.

he says things like "european jews" are this and that.

He'll say that they're white and not semitic at all, in which case he'd have a point. I don't see the racism here.

he calls black ppl he disagree with retarded and racist.

Because a lot of these blacks will reflect the concept of "blackness," and an inherent separation between blacks and whites, which reinforces self-segregation. This is indirectly racist. Note what I said about this subject here.

but he NEVER called a single nazi fuck or white supremo retarded or racist. Never insulted them, never called them on the floor for saying something stupid. You explain that to me.

Why should he? Everybody else is calling them on it. I've told you many times in the past - Abs isn't interested in what everybody already knows. He's interested in exposing double standards, hypocrisy, etc., and he'll do so in attacking the things people normally won't think about, or just blindly accept.

i got a nigerian buddy and fuck if he feels totally lost with other black americans. The guy speaks with a british accent and speaks french and listens to Beethoven and dont get rap! Hes a total trip. I mean i bet ppl think hes "oreo" but he even darker than most blacks i know and hes direct from africa.

I have friends from Ethiopia and Eritrea (most of the black friends that I've had are African immigrants, although there are a couple that are actual African Americans) and they're usually ostracized by blacks in the US. They'll tell them that they're not "black," etc. which is kinda odd, although it makes sense when you realize that blacks in the US generally don't define race by color of skin alone, but rather, through how you act, your background, your attitude, etc. (ie. "blackness").

um ok defnine natural

In the context we've been talking about, it's doing exactly as you'd do if the cop weren't there, but without breaking the law (so perhaps goes 5 - 10 mph less, being more attentive, etc.). And being natural means that you look as if you always do this without thinking about it.

i know but he said that if the driver did that the cops might freak that we had a gun. I know you think the guy is paranoid but hes talking from HIS experience. i never got to ask him what happened to him but i bet it must have been freaky, BTW did you ever get to sit with your hand on heads when you stopped for traffic stuff?

Can't say that I have, but sounds like your friend has been through some shit. Either way, remember this, Jake: peoples' experiences are never wrong, but the conclusions they draw from them can be. It's all a matter of perspective and I usually do what I can to get people to consider other perspectives so that they go with the stronger one, which is likely more "right."

a lot of minorties get shot because the cops ASSUME a black or latino kid has a gun even when they dont. its not TOTALLY impossible.

I doubt it. If they don't see the gun, they won't shoot. If the person has a gun and won't drop it when the cops yell at them to do so, then they're an idiot and shouldn't be surprised that they got shot.

What's more likely is a minority getting abused by a taser, although there's definitely no reliable studies on that from what I've read.

yeah thats fucked.

It's what segregation has brought us, although you can't blame this entire current state of affairs on whites. You can certainly blame whites on segregation and discriminatory laws in the past, but the self-segregation of today is perpetuated by both sides. A white person is just as unable to function in a black community as a black person is in a white community. It's a mutual thing going on here and needs to be resolved if there's going to be any hope for racial progress, and in order to do so, both sides must address their own faults and desires. Unfortunately, with attitudes like these, that cannot happen for one side believes that the other is inherently different.

well yeah. if i went there id look like i came from mars

Probably, but as bad of a rep as the South gets, I honestly doubt you'd be treated like scum. That's a popular myth that people love throwing around. Most Southern communities will be curious about you and ask you questions about where you're from, your family, etc. At least out in the rural areas. In the big cities, it's about the same as you'd find in any other big city, though you'll notice the self-segregation is much stronger than out West. Not sure about the North as I've never been there, but I hear it's pretty self-segregated, too.

well yeah i dont say everyone is like racist there. i just say thats what happened to my buddy's bro and his girl.

There are certainly some racists in the South, just as there are some racists in the North and in the West. My grandfather's best friend's wife was pretty notorious in that regard. A staunch segregationist. But it's funny because people act as if people like her are everywhere in the South, whereas I noticed that her kind of racism was only among the smallest minority.

thats pretty low. and thats young guys right?

Most of my friends are between 18 - 20, although most of them got their licenses around 17, so it's fairly young, yeah.

i dont know about asians (i didn't ask) but ask latinos and blacks and its more like one every year at least.

I certainly don't notice at least one every year among my latino or black friends. Perhaps it's just your area.

well sounds like girls tell you theirs too so i bet its more for males than females.

Well, no, I mean that guys always seem to have this big story about how they got their ticket, whereas girls are usually to the point about it. My female friend got a ticket because she did a California roll on a stop sign and told me that she got a ticket for being a ditz. A guy who got a ticket for the same thing kinda (not stopping completely to turn right on a light) told me about the whole situation, from the cars around him, where the cop was, what the cop saw, etc. etc. All the extra information, more memorable story, and all of that makes it seem to me as if males get tickets more than females, when I don't think that's the case so much. Though, personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's true - insurance rates are always lower for girls than guys, which should say something.

Post edited at 2:27 am on July 28, 2008 by Bud2400

832 users online 186614 members 2064 active today Advertise Here