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Forever Angel
Alone in the Darkness
 Sustainer
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But the requirement of a 'yardstick' is a human restriction. God is not human. How is it that you believe we have the ability to describe His characteristics and limitations? We make up words to define Him... omnipotent, omniscient, etc... and then argue whether or not He fits those definitions. It's just as futile as discussing what was before the 'big bang', there is no way to know.
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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( MotoMojo )
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Well if there is a god, then we are his creation, along with everything. Surely we could deduce something from his existence from ALL this he has supposedly created. Or anything, even like a means by which matter could, even theoretically, be CREATED. Surely there would be some hints. It's science, you use observations and logic to make conclusions. Can no conclusions be arrived at about god? If so, doesn't that make science's argument even stronger? I mean at least scientists can do some speculating as to the nature of science, to say the least. EDIT: You cannot say there isn't a way to know what happened before the big bang. If there was absolutely no way to know, nobody would be working on trying to figure it out. The evidence of the events that occurred during/after the big bang is everything that exists. I am absolutely sure that somewhere among EVERYTHING is the evidence that is useful in determining the events surrounding the big bang. Post edited at 1:31 pm on July 6, 2008 by MotoMojo
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Forever Angel
Alone in the Darkness
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Quote: from MotoMojo at 3:23 pm on July 6, 2008
 Well if there is a god, then we are his creation, along with everything. Surely we could deduce something from his existence from ALL this he has supposedly created. Or anything, even like a means by which matter could, even theoretically, be CREATED. Surely there would be some hints. It's science, you use observations and logic to make conclusions. Can no conclusions be arrived at about god? If so, doesn't that make science's argument even stronger? I mean at least scientists can do some speculating as to the nature of science, to say the least. 
Speculation is something that 'man' is good at, lol. But that doesn't really answer the questions. Take a look here and maybe you'll understand a little more about "the unknown". And there is nothing 'metaphysical' about it.
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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( MotoMojo )
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I know a tiny bit about theoretical physics and I definitely know about the unknown. The fact that we're having a conversation is on the grounds that we understand that it's possible that everything we've ever known is completely untrue, and it's just a ridiculous coincidence that our thoughts and observations seem to be consistent with what is actual, and that all physics we understand are really untrue, etc. By that token, not only can't I prove there isn't a god, but I can't prove that if I drop my cell phone, it will hit the ground. I realize that there is the rather odd to conjure possibility that all reality is misunderstood and distorted by human means of observation, and there is a different set of physics which allows things to happen (like creation of matter) that, by our current understanding of physics and reality, are COMPLETELY impossible. But if you have that on the tip of your tongue while engaging in every conversation, there's no use in speculating anything, because it will always end with, "Well, that is, assuming reality is even applicable to the physical world."
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( MotoMojo )
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Or perhaps that should just be the universally understood conclusion to any argument.
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Forever Angel
Alone in the Darkness
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Did you actually look at that site?
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Pectus Pectoris Memor
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( MotoMojo )
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Yes, I do, because I am well versed in this area. I KNOW there is no way to say, once and for all, that there is or isn't a god. That's WHY I made this topic. If the whole topic was just guys saying, "Oh yeah, it's physically impossible for a god to exist. Ditto.", then it would be a terribly boring thread. Any discussion on the topic of religion has to be considered to be purely speculative.
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( MotoMojo )
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>>People's opinions are the best you can expect for a question like this. << I realize this completely. I can't very well ask for fact from anyone, considering what I said about NOTHING being able to be proven definitely. But I still didn't get anyone's opinions or speculations on what god could be made of, or what could separate god from another living being, seeing as how he is regarded to be alive.
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Forever Angel
Alone in the Darkness
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Quote: from MotoMojo at 4:13 pm on July 6, 2008
Yes, I do, because I am well versed in this area. I KNOW there is no way to say, once and for all, that there is or isn't a god. That's WHY I made this topic. If the whole topic was just guys saying, "Oh yeah, it's physically impossible for a god to exist. Ditto.", then it would be a terribly boring thread. Any discussion on the topic of religion has to be considered to be purely speculative.
For the time being, at least, you could say the same about dark energy/dark matter. There is lots of speculation, little knowledge. But you did, in my opinion, make some statements in your OP that you were unable to tie together when I asked about them. You made the point of all things being made of the same elements yet some are living and some are not, but your explanation of that is rather weak. What "combination" causes the difference?
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Pectus Pectoris Memor
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