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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

An Argument for the Existence of God
Replies: 70Last Post Dec. 28, 2009 9:04pm by S0LITUDE
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( Mein Alias )

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Consider this:

What do you know to be real? Your family? Your house? Your friends? The very dirt beneath your feet? Your body? Your brain?

If you think about it, and really think about it, what can you know to be real? Nothing. Everything can be doubt. Everything can be an evil genius controlling everything we know to be real. All that we know for certain, with a 100% satisfaction, is that we exist. Our intelligence is somewhere, it exists.

But wait, there's more. Consider once more: What if only we existed? In order for us to know anything, there needs to be a second instance of existence. God. God must exist, because we can imagine that he exists. By the very notion of a perfect being, we can assume that there is one. This doesn't work for anything else, because they are not perfect. As knowledge-less lumps of matter, to be able to imagine perfect in turn proves perfection does.


6:56 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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BleedingSteelWings

Omnipotent One
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this sounds like an argument i heard while listening to the Atheist Experience.

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For you these wings bleed my enemies' blood
so I may one day fly...

6:57 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Sep. 2008 | Days Active: 316
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agerask


Swami

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Oh I'm disappointed by this.  I thought it was going to be a legitimate argument. Shame.

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Today, while at the movies, the cashier told me to "Enjoy the movie!"
I responded "You too!" I felt stupid. MLIA.

6:57 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 400
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Rabgix


New World Order

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Nothing we know is absolutely known.

Too much doesnt make any sense.

Like, where did anything begin in the first place?

What predates the big bang? What predates what started the big bang? And what predated what happened before then?

No one knows.

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In this world of adversity, I stand strong. -Me


6:57 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: July 2008 | Days Active: 486
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( Mein Alias )

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Quote: from agerask at 6:57 pm on Nov. 16, 2009

Oh I'm disappointed by this. I thought it was going to be a legitimate argument. Shame.

This is a legitimate argument. You are too ignorant or prejudicial to even interpret my post. You are scum.

6:58 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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( Mein Alias )

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Quote: from Public Enemy 69 at 6:57 pm on Nov. 16, 2009

Nothing we know is absolutely known.

Too much doesnt make any sense.

Like, where did anything begin in the first place?  

What predates the big bang? What predates what started the big bang? And what predated what happened before then?

No one knows.



Your thought-strokes are too broad. You assume we can know science or math exists. You assume we know anything but "I exist."

But we know more than that. The reality we can imagine is only because we can imagine a god, so a god must exist. If god exists, so can reality.


6:59 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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Rabgix


New World Order

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They're broad for a reason, because the possibilities are so broad.

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In this world of adversity, I stand strong. -Me

7:00 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: July 2008 | Days Active: 486
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( Mein Alias )

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I did a simple diagram to show my point.


7:07 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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BleedingSteelWings

Omnipotent One
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you're trying way to hard, mein alias. you REALLY want this point to be proven dont you?

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For you these wings bleed my enemies' blood
so I may one day fly...

7:08 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Sep. 2008 | Days Active: 316
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( Mein Alias )

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Yikes, I'm trying so hard by making a post in an intellectual forum. Too bad no one here is an intellectual.

If you're so wise, master, disprove me.


7:09 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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EmbraceTheHate


Hello darlings.

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I believe in a higher existence, but I don't think it has anything to do with us or affects us in anyway. I don't think we're even capable of imagining a perfect being, because everyone's idea of "perfect" is different. Maybe we can imagine a higher power, but not necessarily one that is all-perfect. Because perfection doesn't really exist. Because what's perfect for one person may not be for another person.

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~May 30th, 2010~

7:10 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: April 2006 | Days Active: 550
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( Mein Alias )

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Quote: from EmbraceTheHate at 7:10 pm on Nov. 16, 2009

I believe in a higher existence, but I don't think it has anything to do with us or affects us in anyway. I don't think we're even capable of imagining a perfect being, because everyone's idea of "perfect" is different. Maybe we can imagine a higher power, but not necessarily one that is all-perfect. Because perfection doesn't really exist. Because what's perfect for one person may not be for another person.

This is fine. My point is, through this method, you can acknowledge the existence of perfection.

7:11 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 68
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medjai



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I exist as a perfect being. I know I am perfect because it is me, only I know.

I need no frame of reference because I am perfect. I am perfect because I am alone. I define perfection because it would require a perfect being to define it. An imperfect being defining a perfect one would be doomed to failure unless it could claim perfect understanding. If an imperfect being defines something it automatically lacks credibility, a perfect being would not need to be defined. The fact that you (who as far as im concerned may not exist, and since you are not perfect by your logic the fact that i can think of you does not make it so, unless i am perfect, which i am) and i disagree means there is no yet conceived perfection. If I assume only you exist, and this is true, your statements hold credibility but a paradox is created (only you exist)

Your logic does not follow. (please excuse grammar and spelling and formatting i am on a phone)

It is always a pleasure, mein alias.

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Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft
might win, by fearing to attempt.

- William Shakespeare


9:31 pm on Nov. 16, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,673
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allsmiles


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Uhh... I fail to see any use of logic or, really, any kind of stringing together of concepts in your post. What specifically states that if something can be imagined, then it exists?

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When they leave me, they're all smiles.
When they leave you, they're in tears.

7:51 am on Nov. 18, 2009 | Joined: Aug. 2007 | Days Active: 639
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MotoMojo


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Great post, medjai. I have to agree.

Following your own train of thought, medjai has shown the flaw in your reasoning. If I am an imperfect being, and I imagine something perfect, then the fact that I am imperfect would skew my image of what 'perfect' is.

A perfect being is not required for imperfection to exist. Also, 'perfect' is still a very subjective term, so I don't think it makes sense to use it so heavily in such an absolute context as 'the existence of God.'

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Spicy Pidgeon


1:06 pm on Nov. 18, 2009 | Joined: July 2004 | Days Active: 352
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