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Brain size was but one of the differences you were going on about. The brain does develop physically according to experience. That's the physical basis for how the mind works.

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Surely with those many examples of proven facts that are hidden from the public, you'll be happy to provide a list.

Have you studied psychology any? Merely being told your ethnic group/gender/whatever typically scores lower on a test can cause you to score lower. If racial differences in intelligence were established, it would be of serious detriment to the less-gifted races to be made aware of it. Simply believing you do as well as others can cause you to do better.

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And a list of facts they hide from us? Select a topic, there are too many to list.

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Not nearly enough. They can't eliminate the myriad factors acting on the psychology of a growing individual. Simply being a black American may change how you think. How do they account for that, kidd?

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How about the 1/2 Blacks scoring better than the fully blacks, yet both being outscored by 1/4th blacks? Surely they all think they're black and are treated as black.

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Not good enough. If you can't control for culture, you can't cross it off the list as a possible causal factor.

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And were the blacks raised in a bubble, sheltered from knowledge that they were different? Did their white parents raise them exactly as they would've had they been white? How many of these white-raised blacks have been tested? When? By whom?

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Some people that carried out such tests are Snyderman, Rothman, Arthur Jenson, Audrey Shuey, Putnam, and quite a bit more.

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It is precisely because you cannot control culture as a variable that you cannot attribute the issue to biological racial differences. It's not for a study to show that biological race doesn't affect intelligence, it's for a study to examine intelligence differences and seek the cause. You attribute a pattern of intelligence or achievement to racial differences without being able to control for culture; That is the key flaw in your line of reasoning. You can't prove it without controlling for culture.

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I'm sure a very slight cultural difference can't explain a 15% difference. American Negroes tend to have a larger White influence on their culture than the Eastern Asians in the area, yet Whites are closer to them than the Negro.

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You couldn't be brought to deny the culture of your people simply because another group felt threatened by it. It is incredibly arrogant of you to expect blacks to abandon their unique communal ways simply because you thought they were stepping on your culture's toes. You couldn't reasonably expect that of ANY group.

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So I guess you concede that you're a lying hypocrite. The racial achievements can't be compared, except of course when doing so provides kidd a chance to gloat over his race's superiority to the Niggers.

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Obviously you don't know why I made the invention post. I wanted a list of Negro inventions and you failed to deliver.

I was not gloating, I was simply trying to devise a list that was not built off of bullshit, lies, and half-truths.

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"If you worship your enemy, you are defeated.
If you adopt your enemy's religion you are enslaved.
If you breed with your enemy you are destroyed."
-Polydoros

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_intelligence

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When comparing different species the ratio of brain weight to body weight does present a correlation with intelligence, though the actual brain weight has little or no effect. For example, the ratio of brain weight to body weight for fish is 1:5000; for reptiles it is about 1:1500; for birds, 1:220; for most mammals, 1:180, and for humans, 1:50. However within the human species modern studies using MRI have shown that brain size shows substantial and consistent correlation (r = .35 to .43 in various studies) with IQ among adults of the same sex.

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He thinks its Jewpedia.

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Even the size, shape, fissures, complexity, thickness ect of each part?

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I don't doubt it, though, as a layperson, I can't say the development of the brain is exactly my forte.

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And Negroes claiming they do as well still don't.

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It's not about the claims you make, it's about the things you're told. Women told they score equally with men on a test are more likely to do well on the test than women told that women generally underperform men. It's not, in that case, about innate abilities but on the effects of belief on your thinking.

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And a list of facts they hide from us? Select a topic, there are too many to list.

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That response sounds like a big, fat, "I don't know what I'm talking about but it sounds impressive," to me. Give me three. Any three.

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How about the 1/2 Blacks scoring better than the fully blacks, yet both being outscored by 1/4th blacks? Surely they all think they're black and are treated as black.

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Not necessarily. Besides, do you have experimental studies that examined that specifically? Or just general descriptive surveys, controlling for nothing?

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What makes you think they all must have cultural differences? Not every Negro acts like a 'gangsta G' and not every White is a hard-working nerd. How many pimpin' fools (or whatever the hell they call themselves) get into the best universities? Not many to be honest. How many Negroes score lower than Whites on exams given only to University grads? The majority.

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If you think you can grow up black in America and have the exact same experience as a white man you're delusional. Cultural differences aren't always as obvious as being a 'gangsta.'

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There have been about 700 tested in three of the tests, and one didn't say the exact amount, but over 200.
Some people that carried out such tests are Snyderman, Rothman, Arthur Jenson, Audrey Shuey, Putnam, and quite a bit more.

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I notice you didn't answer my question. Do you really expect me to hunt down the full-versions of all of these peoples' studies to read every detail of their methodology for myself?

I think it'd be easier for both of us if you'd simply admit that "no, they can't and haven't controlled for culture, I can't attribute causation, sorry for wasting your time Shake."

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How much can culture differ? Sure, people are White and Black, but many of them, University grads for example, don't do that and are more focused with culture having little, if any, difference.
I'm sure a very slight cultural difference can't explain a 15% difference. American Negroes tend to have a larger White influence on their culture than the Eastern Asians in the area, yet Whites are closer to them than the Negro.

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You underestimate the complexity of what culture is.

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I don't want to destroy culture. If I moved to another country, got all of their benefits, was protected by their military and police force, got a free education from them, and lived under their rules, I would try to fit in, not mass-immigrate with all of my family and practice my culture without even giving multiculturalism a chance (trust me, the Whites tried and failed around here, most Hispanics didn't give it a chance)

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We were talking about blacks kidd, not immigrants. Do try and understand the difference.

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I'm a lying hypocrite? How?
Obviously you don't know why I made the invention post. I wanted a list of Negro inventions and you failed to deliver.
I was not gloating, I was simply trying to devise a list that was not built off of bullshit, lies, and half-truths.

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I find it very difficult to believe you simply wanted a list of black inventions, and weren't trying to make a point.

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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It's not about the claims you make, it's about the things you're told. Women told they score equally with men on a test are more likely to do well on the test than women told that women generally underperform men. It's not, in that case, about innate abilities but on the effects of belief on your thinking.

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That response sounds like a big, fat, "I don't know what I'm talking about but it sounds impressive," to me. Give me three. Any three.

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I could go ON AND ON.

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Not necessarily. Besides, do you have experimental studies that examined that specifically? Or just general descriptive surveys, controlling for nothing?

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If you think you can grow up black in America and have the exact same experience as a white man you're delusional. Cultural differences aren't always as obvious as being a 'gangsta.'

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I notice you didn't answer my question. Do you really expect me to hunt down the full-versions of all of these peoples' studies to read every detail of their methodology for myself?

I think it'd be easier for both of us if you'd simply admit that "no, they can't and haven't controlled for culture, I can't attribute causation, sorry for wasting your time Shake."

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You underestimate the complexity of what culture is.

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We were talking about blacks kidd, not immigrants. Do try and understand the difference.

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I find it very difficult to believe you simply wanted a list of black inventions, and weren't trying to make a point.

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Do you think they are told they score lower? No, they aren't.

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Separate issues: The being told you score lower has to do with the relevance and implications of a racial intelligence difference, not the validity of finding that difference.

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Much of the testing was done BEFORE race and intelligence was put together by scientists.

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Ah, I see. So what you're saying is these results aren't relevant today because they aren't up to date.

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William Gayley Simpson tested it as well as Ferfuson and A. Jacob.

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What were their methods? (This just goes on and on, doesn't it.)

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But it can't really result in a 15 point IQ difference.

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You don't know that.

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Can't you understand that just because culture isn't 100% controlled doesn't explain the large intelligence differences and genetic differences?

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It doesn't explain anything, it's just a guess, a hypothesis, or a theory on WHY there are intelligence differences. Races have shown to be different intelligence-wise, until someone tests people of different cultures and gets a high difference, you have shit.

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A man says apples are red because elves paint them at night. Another man points out "Hey, how do you know they aren't red because they grow that way?" To test his hypothesis, man one examines the colour of apples in his garden every morning, and every morning, finds them to be red.

Man one concludes he was right. But he hasn't done anything to account for the possibility that the apples simply grow red, and he also hasn't done enough to indicate the process occurring at night elves or otherwise) to redden the apples.

How does this relate to you? Let's see: You say that researchers have found black people consistently underscoring white people on intelligence tests in a statistically significant way. You don't have any test to isolate that it is their physical blackness, and their studies do nothing to account for other suggested possibilities. If you don't control for all possible variables in an experiment, your results aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

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You underestimate the complexity of genetics.

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No, I don't. I simply don't feel like attributing qualities to large groups of people without convincing experimental evidence to support the assertions. I suppose I'm just old fashioned that way.

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We switched around.

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You can't know if I'm trying to make a point or not.

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I can make an educated guess.

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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Separate issues: The being told you score lower has to do with the relevance and implications of a racial intelligence difference, not the validity of finding that difference.

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Ah, I see. So what you're saying is these results aren't relevant today because they aren't up to date.

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What were their methods? (This just goes on and on, doesn't it.)

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You don't know that.

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The cultural factor wasn't controlled at all, and yes, it could explain any intelligence difference.

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A man says apples are red because elves paint them at night. Another man points out "Hey, how do you know they aren't red because they grow that way?" To test his hypothesis, man one examines the colour of apples in his garden every morning, and every morning, finds them to be red.

Man one concludes he was right. But he hasn't done anything to account for the possibility that the apples simply grow red, and he also hasn't done enough to indicate the process occurring at night elves or otherwise) to redden the apples.

How does this relate to you? Let's see: You say that researchers have found black people consistently underscoring white people on intelligence tests in a statistically significant way. You don't have any test to isolate that it is their physical blackness, and their studies do nothing to account for other suggested possibilities. If you don't control for all possible variables in an experiment, your results aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

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No, I don't. I simply don't feel like attributing qualities to large groups of people without convincing experimental evidence to support the assertions. I suppose I'm just old fashioned that way.

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You switched around. I was still talking about distinct black cultural experience in the US.

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I can make an educated guess.

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But they're not told that they score lower, many of them don't even know they're representing their own race.

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What part of separate-fucking-issues don't you understand? You seem to be a worthy debater but you need serious work on following the train of a discussion.

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No. The tests have gone on for a long time - and STILL go on. There are little to no differences in results.

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Sure.

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They would take children from different schools in the area and test their intelligence with IQ tests AND other methods.
Sometimes they took 100 or so kids, sometimes thousands. I think Simpson tested over 8000 people.

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Still not accounting for enough variables to show causation of course.

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How do you know that? They tend to take people from the SAME AREA with the SAME INCOME. There isn't too much of a cultural difference.

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Why don't you try living with a black family for a few months. One in your area, with the same approximate income/standard of living. You think that at a certain point the generational transmission of culture stops dead and suddenly everyone's the same? You think that a black man with the same income as a white man and in the same area has the same cultural experience/had the same childhood?

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I know for a fact before the rush of Hispanics around here nobody gave a shit about race and the Negroes were treated like Whites and acted, usually, like Whites.

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I know for a fact you don't know that. You don't even know how most of your white acquaintances are like in their own homes, how they're raised, what their experience of the world is.

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(Shankbake cut out a bunch of kidd rune's talk here)

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Sure. We'll go ahead and say for the purposes of discussion that all those findings are legitimate; what practical application does it have?

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60% of our genes are related to our brain. As you know, there can be almost 0.2% genetic differences among humans.
Are you implying that none of that can effect intelligence?

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How do we know that 60% of our genes are related to the brain?

And no, I don't doubt that genetics could influence the brain. I'm skeptical of claims that genetics are the primary factors involved in intelligence/development.

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Their culture is part of the USA.

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You've a firm grasp on the obvious. Now you just need to work on that reading comprehension.

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But that's not evidence according to you. You have to eliminate EVERY FACTOR. If there is a slight chance for a small factor to be present, then you can't be sure, can you?

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Reading people is not scientific. Given your views, and given that you saw fit to make the thread you did, I'm confident in my assessment of your motives.

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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You seem to be a worthy debater but you need serious work on following the train of a discussion.

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Still not accounting for enough variables to show causation of course.

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I know for a fact you don't know that. You don't even know how most of your white acquaintances are like in their own homes, how they're raised, what their experience of the world is.

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What part of separate-fucking-issues don't you understand? You seem to be a worthy debater but you need serious work on following the train of a discussion.

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He likes to derail that train usually.

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Sure.

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Still not accounting for enough variables to show causation of course.

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Why don't you try living with a black family for a few months. One in your area, with the same approximate income/standard of living. You think that at a certain point the generational transmission of culture stops dead and suddenly everyone's the same? You think that a black man with the same income as a white man and in the same area has the same cultural experience/had the same childhood?

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I know for a fact you don't know that. You don't even know how most of your white acquaintances are like in their own homes, how they're raised, what their experience of the world is.

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Sure. We'll go ahead and say for the purposes of discussion that all those findings are legitimate; what practical application does it have?

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Once, somehow, they prove that the average Negro is as intelligent as the average Eurasian, tell me. I'd like to hear all about it.

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How do we know that 60% of our genes are related to the brain?

And no, I don't doubt that genetics could influence the brain. I'm skeptical of claims that genetics are the primary factors involved in intelligence/development.

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Some estimates put the human genome at about 30,000 genes; thus, 30,000 x 0.60 = 18,000 genes. Makes sense, look at the amount of work the brain does and the amount of energy required for it to operate properly.

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You've a firm grasp on the obvious. Now you just need to work on that reading comprehension.

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Reading people is not scientific. Given your views, and given that you saw fit to make the thread you did, I'm confident in my assessment of your motives.

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Is that a "sure" as you agree?

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No, that's a "For the purpose of discussion I'm not going to contest these particular assertions anymore. I don't feel up to it, I don't want to try."

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Of course! Cultural differences suck the brain out of people, forgot that for a second.

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Truly, if the whole racial reform thing falls through I'm sure you have a healthy chance at a career in comedy.

Let's consider it this way for a moment; say, our capacity for intelligence evolved prior to our diversification into the present races. This development is expressed as a highly adaptive, malleable brain that develops based on experience. If there were no selective pressures favoring stupidity, or favoring [even greater intellect] it would be safe to assume that our capacity for thought/learning would be largely unaffected by the physical racial changes that were to then occur. No?

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Whites have been adopted by Negroes yet STILL score closer to their biological parents.

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When were those studies done?

Moreover, how were they done? You mean to tell me that a large sampling of white adults had their IQs measured by a researcher, who proceeded to randomly assign their newborns to black families, then years later tested the IQs of these white children based on the same criteria used to test their parents years earlier? Seems like quite an investment for that researcher to undertake. Who did it? And, who's replicated his results to date?

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because they, and I quote "would rather be with niggers than spics."

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Ah. Now the cogs are fitting together. Here I thought Florida constituted a little pocket free from the usual trappings of the south. As it was, you just grew up in a racist environment, no?

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Cultural differences force the brain to shrink, become less fissured, less complex, and less functional? Cultural differences cause the supragranular layer to become 15% thinner?

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Brain size relative to the body is not a great indicator of intelligence. It's about the design of the brain, and the amount of the brain devoted to association.

Yes, theoretically, your life experiences, causing your mind to develop differently could manifest itself as a difference in the way the brain is fissured, in its complexity. When waving around differences in the physical brains of different races you have to show that 1. Those differences are ALL based on race and not the experience of the subjects studied, and 2. that the observed differences have a statistically significant net effect on intelligence/capacity for intelligence.

Can you do all that kidd?  

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(Kidd had a link concerning genes and the brain here.)

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Website makes the same claim as you, but I don't see them providing support either.

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Regardless, make my list larger than one, please.

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I've absolutely no interest in your list.

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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Truly, if the whole racial reform thing falls through I'm sure you have a healthy chance at a career in comedy.

Let's consider it this way for a moment; say, our capacity for intelligence evolved prior to our diversification into the present races. This development is expressed as a highly adaptive, malleable brain that develops based on experience. If there were no selective pressures favoring stupidity, or favoring [even greater intellect] it would be safe to assume that our capacity for thought/learning would be largely unaffected by the physical racial changes that were to then occur. No?

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When were those studies done?

Moreover, how were they done? You mean to tell me that a large sampling of white adults had their IQs measured by a researcher, who proceeded to randomly assign their newborns to black families, then years later tested the IQs of these white children based on the same criteria used to test their parents years earlier? Seems like quite an investment for that researcher to undertake. Who did it? And, who's replicated his results to date?

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One of the studies that I know well is that they found about 200 Negroes adopted by Whites with evidence of their biological parents. They tested the intelligence of the adopted child, the biological parents, and the legal parents - coming to the conclusion that the child was closer to their biological parents.

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Brain size relative to the body is not a great indicator of intelligence. It's about the design of the brain, and the amount of the brain devoted to association.

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Yes, theoretically, your life experiences, causing your mind to develop differently could manifest itself as a difference in the way the brain is fissured, in its complexity. When waving around differences in the physical brains of different races you have to show that 1. Those differences are ALL based on race and not the experience of the subjects studied, and 2. that the observed differences have a statistically significant net effect on intelligence/capacity for intelligence.

Can you do all that kidd?  

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http://raceandreason.110mb.com/files/~Intelligence/Europeans.html

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The conclusion that intelligence has a high heritability implies that there are genes that determine intelligence. The first of these in normal populations was discovered in the late 1990s by Chorley et al. (1998). It lies on chromosome 6 and possession of one of the alleles of this gene contributes about 4 IQ points to an individual's intelligence.

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Website makes the same claim as you, but I don't see them providing support either.

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PDF (better size):
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jlwzzqjukmm

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I've absolutely no interest in your list.

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i wish we could all get along

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